A Garak/Bashir trope that gives me squick
can I join in ? Little newbie here. But anyway you can ignore my reblog It’s moslty to keep it on my blog. I’m always lurking around in my new fandoms without daring to enter the really interesting discussions. So I’ll try now.
Tinsnip, I absolutely agree with you but until now I haven’t come across many of those fics , only one so far, so for me it’s not a trope yet. It all depends on how you think the character is really, and I think that lying to have Bashir in his bed would be OOC too. I’ve come across many fics with jewelry but for most of them it is Bashir who gives a cardassian jewelry to Garak. Yeah, no it really doesn’t work if Garak lied about that, I really don’t see Bashir being happy about being manipulated like that and I don’t see how it could end well.
“And I’m pretty sure Garak is not this despicable. ” that’s for sure. I don’t see Garak having to fool people into sleeping with him or even worst raping someone. I think it would be way below him to do something like that. For me murder or even torture can be viewed as an art that you can master, but rape no.
Okay for the boy thing, I kind of had a weakness for it, but now that you mention it, it’s true that it doesn’t really make sense to call him boy. Even with the age difference Julian is way too old to be called a boy, and for my need to be consistent with myself about the fact that Garak is not a pedo, I think I will just scrap that from my headcanon from now on. (But I see this trope really often)
Okay for the thing about the culture, my headcanon is also like most of you that Bashir goes to Cardassia (because Garak would never abandon cardassia) and yes we see him learning about cardassian culture and adapting to it more than the other way around, but as ladyyatexel said, I think it has something to do with the fact that we see often the human way portrayed as the better way. Alien cultures are really interesting and seeing a character adapt to it is also really interesting for my part. I also have this way of reversing the trope about the fact that “the human way is the best”. Usually for me the alien way is the best (at least for some aliens) or at least equivalent in worth. So I really don’t like when we see human values prevailing on alien values and it’s them who has to adapt. In Star Trek there is some human ethnocentrism (but less than in many other scifi shows). What with the Federation being mostly human, to the point sometimes to make aliens outcasts and not really comfortable with their different cultures. The Federation is all “oh yeah aliens, diversity!” but still the aliens are influenced into adopting their values. It makes me think of some occidental countries who claims to be for diversity and multiculturalism but still portrays their way of living as the right way. Hum so, for Garak, we know that he is reluctant to like Federation’s values and he doesn’t particularly likes the Federation. Also, I don’t see Bashir giving up everything for Garak or be the one to make all the progress or the sacrifices in the relationship. I think Garak would have to- and does adapt to federation values and culture. I don’t know why there’s a lack of compromise or reciprocity in some fics about their culture, because as we see with their debates and lunch together they already do share more or less equally about their culture, and even Garak seems interested in other cultures. He loves cardassian culture, but I think that he would be interested in human culture -at least in some aspects. Of course discovering the other’s literature and having to live with someone really different are two different things. Maybe my samples of fics are still not big enough to have a definite opinion about this trope but I read some fics where the compromises where on both sides. There is also many “chirstmas fics” that I read where Julian wants to make Garak experience christmas. But hum, just a question like that, do we know if Julian is Christian ?
Ah, une autre Canadienne! Bonjour, ma belle! Ca me plait tellement que vous voulez nous parler! (forgive my terrible French and my lack of “c cedille” because I have no idea how to do accents etc on this computer)
That’s kind of the thing about Garak I have to cling to - that he has limits. (Unlike Dukat, who I want to love, but am terrified of.) I mean, he’s done really terrible things in his past. Hell, he does terrible things in his present. We see him outright kill at least one person, very likely more. He is for hire as an assassin. He would steal a runabout if he could get away with it. He sneaks into people’s quarters at night (dude so creepy). He has his own set of morals and they really don’t align with mine. But I have to believe that rape wouldn’t interest him, that lying to Julian just to get into his pants, knowing that Julian is going to figure it out, or worse yet telling Julian himself, would strike him as completely inappropriate and unnecessarily callous. Garak is heartless and merciless when he needs to be, but he’s not cruel.
You know what? I love the boy thing too. But when I take it out of my head and look at it, it is kind of creepy. It’s tough. My husband is seven years older than, and I call him “boy,” and he sure as hell ain’t. But when the age difference is this big, I suddenly get a squick attack. I have to think about it some more.
Hee, Christmas fics. It’s so cute to imagine. I have no idea if Julian is a Christian. I’ve thought about it, but we’ve never seen any hint of him - or any of them, really - practicing a religion (except Kira of course) - funny! I get the fourth wall reason for it, but am curious about the in-universe reason. Didn’t Gene Roddenberry say something like “by the 23rd century man has outgrown religion”?
Anyway, God knows (quack) that you don’t need to be Christian to do Christmas right now, so I imagine Julian can get away with it in 2374 or whatever it is. I have a little fic bubbling in my mind with pretty much exactly that scenario, thanks to comments like these and Lady Yate-xel’s scarf drawings. I fear it will be twee.
Please always comment - you’re fun to talk to!
You’re canadian too ? What area ? (I tried to click on the “about” button but nothing happened xD) Thank you! And your French is great!
I like characters who have not the same set of morals as I do or are really different from me because that’s what makes them so real and alive, because people don’t have the same set of morals in real life too. And I’m not someone who will excuse any actions of my favorites characters, but it doesn’t mean I won’t still love them as they are. But I usually prefer characters in the gray area instead of outright villains, thus Garak. (that’s why uh Dukat I know he’s supposed to be the villain but I like him more and more each time I see him in an episode agh! dilemma but he has also his shades of gray) I just know that it wouldn’t be his style to lie to Julian about it, if he wanted to act on his attraction toward Julian he would use another method. But that goes along with the way I see him.
Yes the word boy in this case has not the same connotation than the one in your situation. But the more I think about it, the more I think it’s a fanon thing more than something Garak would actually call Julian.
Oh yes, I like the fact that in the 23th/24th century humans are all atheists and that it was portrayed like that in the show. But it doesn’t mean that the cultural aspects are gone. Maybe that comes more from where I live, but I think some aspects that were religious at first can transform into purely cultural things- like celebrating Christmas. That’s why I think Julian wouldn’t be religious but would have kept some of his cultural heritage. That was mostly just a question for diversity’s sake, I read some fics that talked about some cultural heritages of Julian that wasn’t Christian, but not much. One especially was mostly porn ;), but I liked that little detail.
Oh yes a fic idea! Scarf drawings? hum I need to find that. And thank you very much =). When you get in a new fandom and don’t know people who like it too it can be lonely. That’s why I tried to follow many people who liked DS9 (and thank you for following me back)!
The scarf drawings are here, and you will love them, because they are perfection.
I think the TV age difference is about 15 - 20 years; when Bashir turns 30, Garak is in his very late 40s. The IRL age difference between actors is 23 years, which is still acceptable, but for some reason I want to pin them a little closer. Then again, a lot of people seem to think Cardassians live for, like, 160 years, so who knows - maybe Garak’s a youthful 85.
I know what you mean about fandoms being kind of lonely when you’re new. Everybody has all these injokes, and you don’t know the rules. I’ve found this fandom to be very friendly, though - we don’t all ship G/B, and we don’t all like the same characters, and we disagree on a few plot points, and it’s all cool because we all looooove the shoooooow. Just let your freak flag fly; we’re all going to love it because we’re all here to do the same!
Re: the homogeneous planet - rrrrrrgh, I know, it drives me mad, but the amount of digging down and worldbuilding needed to realistically have different cultures and languages and and and on one planet is more than I can imagine… Star Trek does its best, I guess, but we just all kind of accept that everybody from Andor is an Andorian and speaks Andorian and likes Andorian food. Meh. Are there any shows that do that well?
chequerootlurks
